Tag: subfloor

Subfloor Frustrations

February 13, 2014 / Matt / 0 Comments

Leveling joists

I spent nearly all of this past weekend leveling the joists in the first floor. That effort was largely successful, with the nine remaining 12′ spans all adjusted to within a sixteenth of an inch using Method 3. I also leveled five other joists that required the tapered shimming method and got a few more sheets glued and screwed down. My hope, and in fact my expectation was that having done that I would then be able to start putting down full, 8′ sheets of OSB, allowing me to finally finish up this project.

Using the shimming method

Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened. In addition to not being level, the joists are not evenly spaced. They employ a generous “sixteen” inches on center alignment that means the 8′ sheets don’t line up in the middle of a joist at either end, sometimes coming short of one joist entirely. I tried planning ahead, measuring out to the next sheet and seeing if I could make one sheet stretch, but it just didn’t work. Instead I’m finding myself cutting sheets at roughly 32″, 48″, or 64″, plus or minus an inch or so.

Slow progress

On top of this, I’m finding that the walls aren’t exactly even either, so that I’m having difficulty getting the panels to align evenly down a joist and one panel to the next. After putting down an 8′ panel that left a gap at one corner and was snug at the other, I decided I needed to do better. As a result, instead of cutting my panels square at say 48″, I cut an edge that tapers back a ½” or so from the tongue to the groove, so that panels meet in the center of the joist and the tongues fits snugly into the grooves. This is precise and thus time consuming work. Tonight I spent two hours putting two small panels down, incrementally increasing the completed area by a whopping thirty-six square feet.

Cutting tapered ends

When I finished carefully scribing, cutting, and fitting the second of these panels I discovered that the joist was torqued and the shim I glued down was sticking up on the exposed side. Because of this, the second panel is raised up higher than the first. It’s a slight difference, but after the inordinate amount of time I’m spending to make everything level, it’s extremely frustrating. I’ll probably have to go back around with the power planer and even at least a few seams.

Argh! Not even!

I keep reminding myself how I wanted to hire this project out, and thinking I really should have done that, high cost or no. At this point it’s starting to feel like it would have been worth it, assuming they would have done as good a job. It’s hard to even estimate at this point how long it will take me to finish. I’d like to think I’ve figured out my methods now and it should go faster, but who knows. The bay will bring its own set of challenges and I still have some of the shorter joist spans to level. After that I need to fill in the narrow, 5″ gap all along the North wall. Needless to say, I’m really looking forward to this project being done.

On the Level

February 4, 2014 / Matt / 3 Comments

Before we bought our extreme fixer upper, we watched a lot of Holmes on Homes. In addition to an irrational fear of hiring contractors, the show also instilled the importance of building level, plumb, and true. When you’re renovating an old house that’s something of an uphill battle, and at times it’s downright impossible. However, we’re planning on in-floor radiant heat, which uses plywood and aluminum panels that lie on top of the subfloor and has channels for PEX tubing. The subfloor needed to be level and flat, and the existing plank floor was not going to cut it.

Wet wall subfloor

The first new subfloor was done when I reframed the wet wall back in September. At the time I decided that “level” was where the joists rested on the steel beam at the center of the house, since I knew the beam was level. The joists sloped slightly higher toward the South wall, so I used a planer to shave them down to be level and put the new subfloor down. I call this planing method of leveling “Method One”.

Shimming over subfloor

When I started work on the back section of subfloor, I realized that the wet wall was the exception rather than the rule when it came to joist height at the South wall. Most joists were ¾” higher at the outside wall than the beam, making Method One a bad option. Not only would planing that much off be a time consuming pain, I didn’t like removing that much wood from the joists. I decided instead to establish a new level, on top of the small section of subfloor I’d already done. Instead of planing down, I cut and glued down long shims that tapered from nothing to ¾” (depending on the particular joist) over the course of ten feet. This is “Method Two”. It is also a pain in the ass, but slightly less so. There were a few variations of this while we tried to work out the best way to do it.

Jacking up joists

With the back section leveled, but time consumingly so, I wanted to find a faster way to do it. Since the ¾” slope was fairly consistent, I next tried jacking up each joist at the beam and/or the outside wall and putting a shim underneath it, using my trusty hydraulic jack. This is “Method Three” and so far the most straightforward, if still time consuming. In some cases this was all I needed to do, while in others there was still a bow in the center of the spans that I fixed with a long shim, ala Method Two.

I did consider some other methods, such as sistering another joist to the first one. Some people have even used just a 2×4 rather than a full height piece. I didn’t do that partly because I didn’t want to rip out and replace all of the cross bracing between the joists, plus I don’t like the idea of the weight being carried off center of the joist. I want the floor to be as quiet as possible, which is why all the shims and subfloor are being glued down in addition to screws.

Shimming under the joist

I still have a ways to go before the subfloor is done. I’m doing the leveling and the subfloor installation concurrently because we need a way to walk through the first floor, plus a place to put all of our tools. I’ll be working on it in the evening this week as well as this coming weekend. I’m hopeful I can finish by Sunday, but we’ll see.

Steam Pipe Removal

January 27, 2014 / Matt / 2 Comments

I’m sorry folks. This post could have been full of exciting, spark-showering photos of angle grinding, but we didn’t take in-progress shots. In fact, I only took phone camera pictures, so on top of not being as interesting they’re also grainy and blurry. I’ll try to do better.

Steam pipes

Anyway, here’s the old boiler and steam pipes in the foreground with the new boiler and new panel in the background. I finished taking down the steam pipes this weekend. I mostly used the angle grinder with a cutting disk, though in a few places I used the reciprocating saw with a metal blade and some cutting oil.

Water fountain

I was surprised to find that one section of the return pipes was still full of water, even though it hadn’t been running since last winter. I thought it would have evaporated by now, but I guess not. It eventually drained and I finished cutting it out.

Section removed

Because some of the supports were literally falling out of the ceiling, I strung it up in places with wire and bungie cords while I was removing it. All of the pipe went into my scrap pile, which at this point takes up a decent chunk of the basement. Once the snow melts I’ll haul it over to the recycling yard.

Scrap pile

Once everything was taken down it really opened up the basement. I also removed a leftover section of the old gas pipe while I was at it, just so I could call it 100% done. With the pipes removed and the chimney down, there’s nothing in the way of finishing the new subfloor, except for all of the stuff on the first floor I have to move out of the way. I’ve got most of the back section done, and I’m hoping the rest of it will go more quickly.

Pipes removed

The old boiler will wind up going to scrap too. It’s not as heavy as I expected. It’s pretty amazing how much different this section of the basement is from when we bought the place. I suppose that’s true of the first floor, too, since it’s all gutted, but somehow this feels more substantive.

Estimating

December 13, 2013 / Matt / 0 Comments

State of things

I talked a while back about the need to get the subfloor in, and how we wanted to hire it out. So far that hasn’t happened. We put out a few requests for quote, one came back quite high, one never got back to us, and one said that we didn’t actually need to level the floor. Since I don’t want a ¾” slope in the floor, I started work on the back section myself with the help of Mike, Sarah’s dad. It’s been slow going, though we haven’t exactly been working on it constantly. We made a little progress last weekend but got sidetracked insulating the attic, which incidentally has been a marked improvement.

I’m trying to work out how long it’s going to take to do, but there are a lot of variables involved. For example, Sarah’s in the midst of writing final papers and we’re heading into the holidays, so I don’t have a ton of optimism about making much progress the rest of the year. We’re taking a much needed vacation in early January, but I’m hoping to switch into high gear after that. With Sarah done with grad school I should be able to devote a lot more time in the evenings to working on the house. I also expect that once I figure out the best process for leveling the floor and get the hang of it, it should go faster than it has thus far.

The sooner we get the subfloor done, the sooner we can get heat in the first floor (assuming Lester ever finishes the boiler install). It’s also the sooner we can frame, spray foam, and start really making progress. If I can finish the subfloor by the end of January, I really think there’s a chance we could move into the first floor by the end of the year (2014). I may be delusional, but so long as we hire out the electrical and plumbing and don’t run into too many surprises, it seems like it’s possible.

First Floor Progress

November 14, 2013 / Matt / 0 Comments

We’re making headway on a number of different projects. The window company replaced the broken pane in our new front door. The pattern of the privacy glass is a bit denser than the original, but it’s close enough. We got the clips and tape we needed to finish up the bay windows. The new clips are different than the other ones we had, so I had to do a bit of swapping to put them to best use, but the bay windows are now fully installed and flashed and Sarah put Great Stuff into the gaps around the windows. We need to go back around with the backer rod, but things are looking just about done on the window and door front.

Lester hung our new boiler on the wall in the basement and he’s run the venting for it, but there’s still a lot to be done. I ordered the radiators and Lester is getting all of the assorted pumps, valves, and pex we need to hook them up. It’s gotten cold fast, and we’ve been relying on electric baseboards to keep the house warm. It’s going to be a pricey electric bill this month, but hopefully we’ll have heat in the next few weeks.

Speaking of radiators, we disconnected the old radiators on the first floor and moved them to the back. We still need to get them out of the first floor, but one step at a time. Once we’ve got the upstairs radiators out as well, we’ll call a local company to sell them to. Hopefully someone else can use them.

We’ve also cleaned up the wood pile on the first floor. Most of it was from the old windows, including frames and trim. All of it was painted, most of it was rotted, and between the dimensions and all of nails, we haven’t been saving it. Some wood that is in small pieces and doesn’t have paint we’re saving for firewood, other stuff is more usable as fireblocking or future framing. In any case we’ve got some sorted stuff that needs to be moved to the basement, but it’s otherwise taken care of.

I’ve been talking to contractors about leveling the joists and putting in the new subfloor. I’m playing phone tag with one, another told us it was good enough and didn’t need to be leveled, and the third gave us a quote that was more than we expected. I’m contemplating doing the back section myself and seeing how it goes. If nothing else it would reduce the cost and give us a place to put all of the stuff.

Our neighbors in the crappy house to the North moved out and the house was bought by a broker who is planning to convert it into a single family, though probably a lot faster than we’re doing it. We’re excited that there will be a nicer house next door, but it will also be a little disheartening if there’s is started and finished and ours is still putzing along.

Finally, our next big project is removing the chimney. I went up on the roof for the first time and took stock of things. It honestly doesn’t look like it will be terrible. While I was up there I took down an old antenna that was literally in the chimney and not attached to anything. More scrap metal! We’re planning to tackle the section of chimney above the roof this Sunday. The goal is to get enough taken out that we can repair the roof. At that point we can take it down from the inside, floor by floor.

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